The Church

A very very dear friend of mine wants to get married to her long term partner. Her partner is great and has become a good friend of mine. All is great, yes? Well, no.

There is a huge and insurmountable problem is that they are both women. I know, shocking isn’t it. The fact of the matter is that they both love each other (very much), they have been together for 5 years (happily), they live together (equally happily) and they want to take that next step to confirm their commitment in the eyes of the world and their God. I should also point out that both women are long term, committed Christians and have never had a problem from the Church of England because of their relationship.

Now for the fun stuff. My friends have many other friends who are ordained vicars in the Church of England. The Church of England does not perform or, it seems, condone same sex marriages or even partnerships. So far, fair enough. The United Reformed Church, however, does. The URC is where the blessing will take place. These ordained vicars have been told by their Bishops that they are absolutely forbidden from attending the service. Let’s repeat that: absolutely forbidden from attending the service. It seems that the Church believes that if they attend, they are doing so as vicars, even if they dress in “civvies” and do not introduce themselves by their full titles.

Equally, my friends are getting resistance from some of their other gay friends. The mind boggles. This is supposed to be the happiest day of their lives in which they stand before God and man and affirm and confirm their lifelong commitment to each other. They need to be supported in this and are, instead, meeting with resistance and red tape and other crap that they don’t need.

As far as I am aware (and please correct me if I’m wrong), there is nothing in the Bible which explicitly forbids lesbianism – male-male partnerships, yes, but female-female, no. Now, if God is omniscient (all knowing) and omnipresent (everywhere and, by extension, everywhen), then surely when dictating the words, He would have mentioned that he was against this sort of thing. Yes? Would that not then mean that God either doesn’t mind or simply didn’t know? Obviously, if it’s the latter then there are a few issues with claims against Him (or should that just be “him”)?

Anyway, that takes me a little way away from what I wanted to say. I am extremely angry at the Church of England, especially since this short sightedness tends to speak against their usual “all inclusiveness” and alienates the people they should be encouraging – Christians.

I, for one, will be attending the service and I wish my friends all the very best and happiness for their lives together.

Maybe I should start my own church.


Posted on 5 November, 2006, in Generalities, Rants. Bookmark the permalink. 23 Comments.

  1. Leviticus 18:22 is also very clear in forbidding a male homosexuality without mentioning females. . .

    If you’ve ever read “Dogbert’s Clues for the Clueless” you’ll know he gives one very good piece of advice (twice): “Don’t mix logic and religion”

  2. What’s annoying me is that they are jumping through all sorts of hoops, are doing what any loving couple would want to do and are being treated like crap.

    Makes me sooo mad [/gumby]

  3. This is what I hate about America currently with Bush and Company, trying to prevent same sex marriages. I’m all for it as I am all for separation of Church and State.

    When the government steps in and says two people can’t get married because they are the same sex, that’s an invasion to their own “persuit of happiness” and our own freedom like our Constitution grants. When the government chooses to control our lives with religious beliefs, they’re choosing sides, which they should not do in such cases since religion should play no part in our government and legal system.

    Sometimes I find it hard to believe that I’m not religious but yet find my own morals better than those who follow a god.

  4. Drew – amen to that 🙂

  5. Right, so you all know where I’m coming from, I’m a Christian. I believe that every single person is sinful. Some people have homosexual tendencies, others are judgemental, etc. I reckon that God says that sex best happens in a male-female marriage. However, I’m disgusted at the people (ie, Church) that don’t show God’s love to everyone. No one is perfect, and the judgemental types often forget that there aren’t layers of imperfection.

    Sigh. God loves your friends, Ray. It’s good to hear that they love him too.

    You/they might be interested in sermon podcasts from my church. Week 5 – and don’t be put off by the title.

    Afraid that lots of people give the wrong impression of my beliefs. Sorry for the junk we put out sometimes.

  6. Thanks Alison – weirdly enough, the “ordinary” Christians in the churches and the majority of the clergy have no problem with this and are supportive. It’s the Church (big C and lots of bureaucracy) who are putting all the barriers in place.

    On the one hand, kudos to the Church who are sticking by their principles in the face of falling attendance and the public considering them far from relevant in the modern age. OTOH, why alienate people who are already members of the church and try to interest others (in a non-creepy or overly annoying way) in joining up or at least just attending?

    It angers me that some of my friends’ friends and family are boycotting this and it angers me that their special day is being spoiled.

  7. OUTPUT <obligatory statement of values with “I’m not Jesus, so it’s not my place to decide if they’re going to Hell” limiter>

    I have no desire to get “Churchy,” but a great man once said in regards to issues such as these, “we can disagree without being disagreeable.”

    It’s a difficult thing to be sure. Emotions are high, opinions omnipresent, and people proud and unyielding.

  8. I like how Ray describes the “ordinary” Christians, that’s kind of funny but it’s so true.

    I know a lot of people that have faith. Actually one guy is trying to start his music career on the side as a Christian singer. He’s released one CD on his own and about to release a second. He’s an ordinary Christian. He’s one of my best friends. He doesn’t go to the extreme. He claims he doesn’t feel same sex couples is right according to his bible but that doesn’t make him hate such people. What they do is their business is he’ll tell you and that’s exactly how each and every person who believes in such religion should handle it.

    The problem with some people and not just religious people is they’re always up in other people’s business and trying to tell them how to live their life.

    Like I said previously, I might not be religious myself but I don’t ever judge anyone who is. Believe what you want to believe, that’s your right as a human on this earth.

    And damnit Ray, those icons have got to go. Too much movement, headache.. Don’t they have an option for a pull down selection box or something 😉

  9. Yeah, there is an option somewhere, but I need to get the energy together to go delving into the CSS. I did turn the icons off in the Comment area – are you still seeing them?

  10. Heh, yeah, they’re still there. :cawg:

  11. Odd. I don’t see them at all. Let me try a different browser.

  12. IE6 Shows them, but FF 2 doesn’t. Ths internet lark is harder than it looks!

  13. Yeah, Opera on Windows still shows them here.. 🙂

  14. I think that the way around this is for me to put a big banner up to say that this site should only be viewed with FF – that’ll fix it!

  15. Yup, big banners always work!

  16. Shall I create a sticky post as well?

  17. Make sure you have plenty of animated .gifs too. They just scream style and taste.

  18. Yeah – so we’re agreed:
    sticky post
    .gifs everywhere

    I think it’s also important that I change the theme of this site to resemble a Myspace page – embedded music, poor spelling and typing and lots and lots of graphics.

    If this site loads in less than 10 minutes on broadband I will consider it a failure.

  19. Sounds GREAT! If you can see your way to alternating between 1337-sp34k and txt msg every other post, this blog would be heaven!

    Ugh. I think I just made myself sick by saying that. :nauseous:

  20. what like this do u mean

    do we really need punc2ashun or is it fine without

  21. 0_.

    What have I done?

  22. Ray obviously hasn’t mastered txt spk:

    wot lyk dis u mean?


  23. I have created monsters! ,_,

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